Seo Taiji 1992-2004: South Korean popular music and masculinity (my master's thesis)
© Janet Hilts 2006 - please note: this is not the final version of my thesis.
In this second section, the focus of my analysis was primarily fans’ responses to my questions concerning Seo Taiji and gender [1]. As for the section above, I also paid attention to their talk at other points in our discussions and their overall approach. I observed two common patterns concerning fans’ conceptions of Taiji in regards to gender: Seo Taiji displays an array of gender constructions, and Seo Taiji displays no gender and instead expresses only his individual characteristics.
Among fans who spoke about Taiji displaying gender, there is a clear consensus that Taiji does not display conventional types of masculinity consistently. However, fans who felt Taiji displays an array of gender constructions were vague about this. A number of fans articulated notions that Taiji is somehow ‘progressive’ and as such represents an alternative masculinity to something more conservative, and fans articulated Taiji displays multiple patterns of gender in his image and music.
The notion that Taiji is somehow ‘progressive’ and as such represents a kind of alternative masculinity to more normative and/or hegemonic masculinities formed a large part of Kang-t’ae and Chae-tol’s talk as I discussed in Chapter 1. One female fan, Kûn-hae, expressed a similar sentiment. Also, like Kang-t’ae and Chae-tol, she began talking about this side of Taiji on her own, without my having asked her a question. In excerpt 4, we can see the vagueness with which Taiji is perceived in terms of being progressive.
Specifically, Kûn-hae talked about the importance of the song “Victim”, as Chae-tol did, to confirming her notion of Taiji as ‘progressive’. Kûn-hae’s words “my vague expectation for his ‘minority sensitivity’” indicate her self- awareness of her unclear ideas about Taiji and his place as an alternative figure. As for Kang-t’ae and Chae-tol, Kûn-hae talked about Taiji
as if he were different from ‘normal’ Korean men and that this is important to her. In this excerpt, she talked about him as different from other male popular musicians―“The message is very clear. He seems to be different from other male rocker/rapper.” His difference, specifically being outwardly pro-feminist with his song “Victim”, is quite significant to her, which she indicated in phrases such as “I was just glad!” or “so I came to like him more and more and trust him more and more” and her use of the song as her homepage’s background music. Generally, Kûn-hae was uncomfortable talking about Taiji in terms of gender and primarily talked about him reflecting only his personal characteristics, although once she tentatively suggested, “Taiji himself is not masculine” and “of course Taiji’s songs can influence on the gender concept…break the stereotype [of being a ‘real man’]… I think.” In contrast, she spoke assuredly about “Victim” as essentially indicating Taiji as a type of man, an uncommon pro-feminist man different from other male rockers or rappers. “Victim” reveals Taiji is a certain type of man, or put another way, this song enacts an alternative pattern of masculinity, or practice of masculinity (Connell, 2002). Taiji’s “Victim”, in this case enacts a specifically pro-feminist pattern of masculinity. This alternative pattern is something Kûn-hae had hoped Taiji would participate in, and something she happily spoke about her male friends participating in. Given that it is important to Kûn-hae that Taiji and her friends are knowledgeable of and sensitive about discrimination against females in South Korea (and conversely her criticism of men who are not) it may be difficult to understand why Kûn-hae elsewhere primarily talked about Taiji as expressing only personal characteristics and not in terms of men and masculinities. It is possible that Kûn-hae’s reluctance to classify Taiji as some type of ‘man’ enacting some types of masculinities is related to her reluctance to talk in ways that repeat conventional, patriarchal gender configurations. But currently, she has some trouble discussing men’s practices and images in a more complex way, beyond black and white—masculine versus not masculine—terms.
Concerning Taiji’s image and his other songs, especially the sound of his songs, other fans did speak about gender explicitly, and most explained how different aspects of Taiji’s music and/or image enacted different patterns of gender. [2] Some fans began talking using binary terms of “masculine” versus “feminine”, but often in a vague and sometimes confused manner, proceeded to talk in a way that indicated a new way to think about gender, that does not fit into existing scripts of South Korean gender arrangements.
One fan who spoke about Taiji enacting different patterns of gender was Yu-t’aek (31). Yu-t’aek, who was interviewed the third time in Korean by our mutual friend Uk-tong (following my questions) begin talking about the dichotomy ‘masculine’ versus ‘feminine’ but, somewhat aware of the un-realness of speaking this way ended up talking a little about the complexities of gender patterns. Some of their conversation is shown in excerpt 5
Yu-t’aek started confidently describing Taiji’s music as ‘masculine’ but his vocal style as “like a woman” but then got stuck or confused over how Taiji’s songs could reflect both ‘masculinity’ and ‘be like a woman’ simultaneously. His comfort in talking in dichotomies in this instance ended up confusing him: “Taiji’s voice is like a woman’s (yôsôngsông-indae) but his music is close to masculinity (namsôngsông). Does it make sense”? [3] Although he does not resolve this issue, and instead questioned the purpose of trying to define masculinity or femininity (part of a general disinterest in talking about music and popular music stars which regulated much of his participation in all interview sessions) his friend made sense of Taiji’s seeming mixed gender. Uk-tong’s suggestion―Taiji’s ‘feminine’ voice combined with ‘masculine’ music expresses contemporary South Korea’s increasing gender complexity, the breaking down of clearly defined ‘masculine’ and ‘feminine’ practices―is astute but did not interest Yu-t’aek much. They had discussed the issue of gender practice change in detail earlier in this conversation and this interested Yu-t’aek a great deal: Uk-tong “It seems to me that you don’t think that these issues are significant”, Yu-t’aek “No. It is very important in my life because it doesn’t seem that women will stop becoming like men, masculine (yôsôngdûr-i namsôngjôgi twaeganûn’gônûn kkût’naji anûlt’ende), so as we (South Korea) become richer and richer women will become stronger and stronger so it is important to me.” [4] In fact, Yu-t’aek’s interest lay almost exclusively in gender practices in economic aspects of society:
His disinterest in cultural expressions of gender rendered discussing Taiji in terms of gender difficult and rather pointless. In short, he does not really feel that cultural expressions of gender patterns have much significantly to do with larger patterns of gender change in contemporary South Korean society. As a result, talking about Taiji in relation to patterns of culture in larger society is not particularly important or interesting to him. This is despite being a devoted Taiji fan who can sing lyrics to any Taiji song with ease and perfection, who obsessively listens to each Taiji album after its release and conjures up philosophical explanations for lyrics and moods of many songs and so on. Despite being personally uninterested in putting into words his impressions of music (e.g. Taiji’s songs) or his opinions of popular musicians, Yu-t’aek’s, and certainly Uk-tong’s, communications illustrate particularly well how many younger Koreans talk about gender in a dynamic way, where conventional notions that gender is stable and taken-for-granted are minimal.
Other fans (primarily Kang-t’ae and as well as Ki-t’aek, Chae-tol and Yun-hûi) were more interested in talking about Taiji in terms of broader patterns of gender and gender change in contemporary South Korea. For instance, Ki-t’aek (age 26) detailed that different aspects of Taiji display different gender constructions: Taiji’s music exhibits extremes of femininity (“Nôege”) and masculinity (“Kyoshil Idea”) but his appearance is androgynous. He suggested that this unusual combination of genders is practical―it helps Taiji have a broad fan base―and realistic:
His thoughts are similar to Uk-tong’s in that both refer to Taiji’s mixed gender characteristics as suiting the current era, which they see as a time of gender changes and flux. At the same time as he is sure of and drawn to Taiji’s ‘masculinity’, ‘femininity’ and androgyny for being “modern” and “real”, Ki-t’aek, like Yong-t’ae, is unsure because he has not met Taiji personally. He is concerned that he cannot account for his personality in terms of gender. In such as way, Ki-t’aek’s talk about Taiji, like most fans in fact, is firm at times and uncertain at others. It is interesting that Ki-t’aek suggested that although Taiji’s expressions of gender are not common, they are realistic. Although I did not get to know Ki-t’aek well enough to really know how he feels in terms of himself and patterns of masculinity, except that he himself seems unsure, he, like Kang-tae, was drawn to Taiji’s difference. While Yu-t’aek was confused by Taiji’s seeming contradictory genders, Ki-t’aek and Kang-t’ae were pleased that Taiji does not seem straightforward and predictable and instead presents as a man to whom they can relate quite well.
[1] The list of question I used for the last interview session of which this topic was a part are listed in Appendix #1.
[2] Yun-hûi, Yong-t’ae, Yu-t’aek, Kang-t’ae, Ki-t’aek, and to some degree Kûn-hae.
[3] “Kakkaun’gôn yôsôngsông-indae norae-aesô p’ongginûn-gônûn namsôngsôngi kanghadago saenggakhae taedabi andoena.”
[4] “Aniji namsôngsông-ina naega yaegihaettchanha namsôngsông-ina yôsôngsông-ûn nae insaeng-esô ch’ungyohadago yôsôngsông-ûn yôsôngdûr-i namsôngjôgiitwaeganûn’gônûn kkût’naji anhûlt’ende tô môkko salman halsurok tô kanghejilt’ende chungyohan nahant’esôn chungyohan’gôji.”
[5] “Kûrônikka yôsôngsông-i kanghaejinûn kônûn kyôlhonhan yôjadûr-i vj irôn’gô ônlon-esô p’olsu innûnte kûrôn’gô poda kyôlhon-ûl hanûnge kyôlhon-ûl haesô sanûn’gôt-to kûrôhgo kyôlhonûl handa-nûn chach’e-to naega namja-ûi kyôngchegwôn anûro tûrôgasô sanûnge anigo nae nûngnyôk-ûro chasin-ûi ungnok-ûro ch’ungbunhi sal suinnûn yôjadûr-i manhi saeng’gigi ttaemune aswiun’ge mwô ya.”
Among fans who spoke about Taiji displaying gender, there is a clear consensus that Taiji does not display conventional types of masculinity consistently. However, fans who felt Taiji displays an array of gender constructions were vague about this. A number of fans articulated notions that Taiji is somehow ‘progressive’ and as such represents an alternative masculinity to something more conservative, and fans articulated Taiji displays multiple patterns of gender in his image and music.
The notion that Taiji is somehow ‘progressive’ and as such represents a kind of alternative masculinity to more normative and/or hegemonic masculinities formed a large part of Kang-t’ae and Chae-tol’s talk as I discussed in Chapter 1. One female fan, Kûn-hae, expressed a similar sentiment. Also, like Kang-t’ae and Chae-tol, she began talking about this side of Taiji on her own, without my having asked her a question. In excerpt 4, we can see the vagueness with which Taiji is perceived in terms of being progressive.
Excerpt #4
Kh: Another song (I want to listen to) "Victim" in 7th album (we begin listening to the song).
When I first heard this song... I was just glad! And thank Taiji for this song! [Oh!] The message is very clear. He seems to be different from other male rocker/rapper [Uhum] He shows his thoughts on sexual harassment...or sexual discrimination. [Yes] Even female singers seldom make this kind of song. I was just happy [Right] my vague expectation for his 'minority sensitivity' seemed to be realized [ah ha!] so I came to like him more and more and trust him more and more. Yes I think so. When the 7th album appeared I used this music for background music of my homepage. [Ahhh] Because I like this song & I want my friends to hear/try this music so I chose this song for bgm (background music)[Ok] And my friends like this song so I was happy […] So the message is very clear, I think. [Yes] He fight with sexist male on behalf of female and their fans fights [ok].
Specifically, Kûn-hae talked about the importance of the song “Victim”, as Chae-tol did, to confirming her notion of Taiji as ‘progressive’. Kûn-hae’s words “my vague expectation for his ‘minority sensitivity’” indicate her self- awareness of her unclear ideas about Taiji and his place as an alternative figure. As for Kang-t’ae and Chae-tol, Kûn-hae talked about Taiji
as if he were different from ‘normal’ Korean men and that this is important to her. In this excerpt, she talked about him as different from other male popular musicians―“The message is very clear. He seems to be different from other male rocker/rapper.” His difference, specifically being outwardly pro-feminist with his song “Victim”, is quite significant to her, which she indicated in phrases such as “I was just glad!” or “so I came to like him more and more and trust him more and more” and her use of the song as her homepage’s background music. Generally, Kûn-hae was uncomfortable talking about Taiji in terms of gender and primarily talked about him reflecting only his personal characteristics, although once she tentatively suggested, “Taiji himself is not masculine” and “of course Taiji’s songs can influence on the gender concept…break the stereotype [of being a ‘real man’]… I think.” In contrast, she spoke assuredly about “Victim” as essentially indicating Taiji as a type of man, an uncommon pro-feminist man different from other male rockers or rappers. “Victim” reveals Taiji is a certain type of man, or put another way, this song enacts an alternative pattern of masculinity, or practice of masculinity (Connell, 2002). Taiji’s “Victim”, in this case enacts a specifically pro-feminist pattern of masculinity. This alternative pattern is something Kûn-hae had hoped Taiji would participate in, and something she happily spoke about her male friends participating in. Given that it is important to Kûn-hae that Taiji and her friends are knowledgeable of and sensitive about discrimination against females in South Korea (and conversely her criticism of men who are not) it may be difficult to understand why Kûn-hae elsewhere primarily talked about Taiji as expressing only personal characteristics and not in terms of men and masculinities. It is possible that Kûn-hae’s reluctance to classify Taiji as some type of ‘man’ enacting some types of masculinities is related to her reluctance to talk in ways that repeat conventional, patriarchal gender configurations. But currently, she has some trouble discussing men’s practices and images in a more complex way, beyond black and white—masculine versus not masculine—terms.
Concerning Taiji’s image and his other songs, especially the sound of his songs, other fans did speak about gender explicitly, and most explained how different aspects of Taiji’s music and/or image enacted different patterns of gender. [2] Some fans began talking using binary terms of “masculine” versus “feminine”, but often in a vague and sometimes confused manner, proceeded to talk in a way that indicated a new way to think about gender, that does not fit into existing scripts of South Korean gender arrangements.
One fan who spoke about Taiji enacting different patterns of gender was Yu-t’aek (31). Yu-t’aek, who was interviewed the third time in Korean by our mutual friend Uk-tong (following my questions) begin talking about the dichotomy ‘masculine’ versus ‘feminine’ but, somewhat aware of the un-realness of speaking this way ended up talking a little about the complexities of gender patterns. Some of their conversation is shown in excerpt 5
Excerpt #5
Yt: Ya Seo Taiji’s voice is like a woman but Seo Taiji’s music has a strong beat and he uses other voices that are very masculine. By doing so he tries to get something very strong and masculine. For the 1st and 2nd album, in the music that he wanted to make he made an effort to make music with strong beats and vocals. If I distinguish masculinity by his voice.
Ut: Honestly it is close to a woman’s.
Yt: Taiji’s voice is like a woman’s but his music is close to masculinity. Does it make sense?
Ut: His inherited characteristics are like a women but that’s it.
Yt: If you ask if Seo Taiji is feminine I would say no.
Ut: When you compare his voice with normal men’s vocals, Seo Taiji maybe is kind of feminine.
Yt: I dunno what is written in the thesis. Does she distinguish masculinity and femininity so I mean the idea before about distinguishing men and women? How can clarifying what masculinity and femininity is reflect society, help us understand society. I don’t get it.
Ut: What you say is becoming more ambiguous!
Yt: Yes
Ut: Comparing is a paradox. To compare, it doesn’t make sense to compare. Society is complicated. The border between masculinity and femininity has become ambiguous so there are lots of parts that are shared. So in some ways, Seo Taiji represents this very well. The voice is not like a normal man’s vocal voice, but the music that he pursues is very masculine.
Yu-t’aek started confidently describing Taiji’s music as ‘masculine’ but his vocal style as “like a woman” but then got stuck or confused over how Taiji’s songs could reflect both ‘masculinity’ and ‘be like a woman’ simultaneously. His comfort in talking in dichotomies in this instance ended up confusing him: “Taiji’s voice is like a woman’s (yôsôngsông-indae) but his music is close to masculinity (namsôngsông). Does it make sense”? [3] Although he does not resolve this issue, and instead questioned the purpose of trying to define masculinity or femininity (part of a general disinterest in talking about music and popular music stars which regulated much of his participation in all interview sessions) his friend made sense of Taiji’s seeming mixed gender. Uk-tong’s suggestion―Taiji’s ‘feminine’ voice combined with ‘masculine’ music expresses contemporary South Korea’s increasing gender complexity, the breaking down of clearly defined ‘masculine’ and ‘feminine’ practices―is astute but did not interest Yu-t’aek much. They had discussed the issue of gender practice change in detail earlier in this conversation and this interested Yu-t’aek a great deal: Uk-tong “It seems to me that you don’t think that these issues are significant”, Yu-t’aek “No. It is very important in my life because it doesn’t seem that women will stop becoming like men, masculine (yôsôngdûr-i namsôngjôgi twaeganûn’gônûn kkût’naji anûlt’ende), so as we (South Korea) become richer and richer women will become stronger and stronger so it is important to me.” [4] In fact, Yu-t’aek’s interest lay almost exclusively in gender practices in economic aspects of society:
Our country is very late because we were very busy so the economic reason is right. The reason women have become stronger is that society doesn’t just want competent men but if women are competent, society doesn’t care whether they are women or men. We can see this in media like VJ (a tv program) that shows why femininity (yôsôngsông) has become stronger. Femininity has become stronger because now there are a lot of competent (nûngnyôk) women who can live alone or who can have economic ability and marriage no longer means women belong to men. (Yu-t’aek). [5]
His disinterest in cultural expressions of gender rendered discussing Taiji in terms of gender difficult and rather pointless. In short, he does not really feel that cultural expressions of gender patterns have much significantly to do with larger patterns of gender change in contemporary South Korean society. As a result, talking about Taiji in relation to patterns of culture in larger society is not particularly important or interesting to him. This is despite being a devoted Taiji fan who can sing lyrics to any Taiji song with ease and perfection, who obsessively listens to each Taiji album after its release and conjures up philosophical explanations for lyrics and moods of many songs and so on. Despite being personally uninterested in putting into words his impressions of music (e.g. Taiji’s songs) or his opinions of popular musicians, Yu-t’aek’s, and certainly Uk-tong’s, communications illustrate particularly well how many younger Koreans talk about gender in a dynamic way, where conventional notions that gender is stable and taken-for-granted are minimal.
Other fans (primarily Kang-t’ae and as well as Ki-t’aek, Chae-tol and Yun-hûi) were more interested in talking about Taiji in terms of broader patterns of gender and gender change in contemporary South Korea. For instance, Ki-t’aek (age 26) detailed that different aspects of Taiji display different gender constructions: Taiji’s music exhibits extremes of femininity (“Nôege”) and masculinity (“Kyoshil Idea”) but his appearance is androgynous. He suggested that this unusual combination of genders is practical―it helps Taiji have a broad fan base―and realistic:
I like Taiji, because because he seems modern. We [Koreans], now are… mostly not one way or the other way, only masculine or … that’s only in movies I think. Maybe it’s true for my father’s generation but not anymore. So I like Taiji …He is not common but he seems better, more real, than a rocker or idol singer. It’s hard to explain. […] Also… I dunno his personality exactly. If I could know that I could explain more exactly. Anyway I like him. (Ki-t’aek).
His thoughts are similar to Uk-tong’s in that both refer to Taiji’s mixed gender characteristics as suiting the current era, which they see as a time of gender changes and flux. At the same time as he is sure of and drawn to Taiji’s ‘masculinity’, ‘femininity’ and androgyny for being “modern” and “real”, Ki-t’aek, like Yong-t’ae, is unsure because he has not met Taiji personally. He is concerned that he cannot account for his personality in terms of gender. In such as way, Ki-t’aek’s talk about Taiji, like most fans in fact, is firm at times and uncertain at others. It is interesting that Ki-t’aek suggested that although Taiji’s expressions of gender are not common, they are realistic. Although I did not get to know Ki-t’aek well enough to really know how he feels in terms of himself and patterns of masculinity, except that he himself seems unsure, he, like Kang-tae, was drawn to Taiji’s difference. While Yu-t’aek was confused by Taiji’s seeming contradictory genders, Ki-t’aek and Kang-t’ae were pleased that Taiji does not seem straightforward and predictable and instead presents as a man to whom they can relate quite well.
[1] The list of question I used for the last interview session of which this topic was a part are listed in Appendix #1.
[2] Yun-hûi, Yong-t’ae, Yu-t’aek, Kang-t’ae, Ki-t’aek, and to some degree Kûn-hae.
[3] “Kakkaun’gôn yôsôngsông-indae norae-aesô p’ongginûn-gônûn namsôngsôngi kanghadago saenggakhae taedabi andoena.”
[4] “Aniji namsôngsông-ina naega yaegihaettchanha namsôngsông-ina yôsôngsông-ûn nae insaeng-esô ch’ungyohadago yôsôngsông-ûn yôsôngdûr-i namsôngjôgiitwaeganûn’gônûn kkût’naji anhûlt’ende tô môkko salman halsurok tô kanghejilt’ende chungyohan nahant’esôn chungyohan’gôji.”
[5] “Kûrônikka yôsôngsông-i kanghaejinûn kônûn kyôlhonhan yôjadûr-i vj irôn’gô ônlon-esô p’olsu innûnte kûrôn’gô poda kyôlhon-ûl hanûnge kyôlhon-ûl haesô sanûn’gôt-to kûrôhgo kyôlhonûl handa-nûn chach’e-to naega namja-ûi kyôngchegwôn anûro tûrôgasô sanûnge anigo nae nûngnyôk-ûro chasin-ûi ungnok-ûro ch’ungbunhi sal suinnûn yôjadûr-i manhi saeng’gigi ttaemune aswiun’ge mwô ya.”
Previous posts
- [ch. 2] Taiji and gender 2 & Conclusion
- Vignette # 2
- CHAPTER 3: Alternative masculinity through Seo Tai...
- [ch. 3] Vocal sound and gender
- [ch. 3] Seo Taiji & Boys’ soft, slow songs
- [ch. 3] Taiji’s vocals in relation to hegemonic ma...
- CHAPTER 4: The relationship of “Hayôga” performanc...
- [ch. 4] Fraternity
- [ch. 4] Remasculinization
- [ch. 4] Competition with ‘western’ masculinity